Post by Swindle on Dec 16, 2017 6:12:21 GMT -8
Poe - His need to be in control ultimately puts the escape in danger because the real plan is exposed to the First Order by that thief/unlocker, who's name I never caught. The counter argument is command should have told him what's up, but the counter-counter argument is when you are running an op, you don't need to tell every grunt every aspect of your plan. There is a chain of commend and appeasing Poe isn't apart of it. Poe did mutiny, disobey orders several times. His actions got some people killed, though by the end, he did learn his lesson. Might be a bit heavy handed, but I think the lesson is important in times of war.
Finn/Rose - This stuff is ultimately filler, though I did like Rose's character development. She saves some abused animals, inspires hope in the common kids being oppressed on the casino planet, and saves Finn where she had no chance of saving her sister. I liked how she stunned Finn at the beginning despite fangirling over him.
Finn doesn't really have any character development here, he's just doing everything to make sure Rey is ok. I hope he survives to be more than a center of a love triangle. I do think a lot of the stuff with Finn/Rose needed to be cut down a bit. It is over padded. Also, the casino guards reminded me of Spaceballs troops.
Captain Phasma - is definitely Boba Fett redux. Looks cool, promise of great things based upon fan expectations, then does nothing in the followup and dies a humiliating death by her rival. Boba's death is worse in Return because its played for kiddy laughs. Outfit design is nice, but at the end of the day, you can only be a decent villain if you get something to work with. Might be an unpopular option, but I always like Jango over Boba anyway, because he was just a merc trying to make a buck. I liked his simple motives and convo with Obi. And yes, I know he dies in an off hand way too, but he seemed like an actual character, not just a shinny toy like Boba or Phasma. Moving along...
Kylo Ren - Ben feeling like his master lost faith in him is more compelling a reason to turn (or the breaking point as he was already being corrupted) than Anakin's crazed desire to keep Padme alive. I got to keep Padme alive, ok I got to kill a bunch of kids who have no responsibility for anything going on. That leap has never made sense to me. Anakin's turn wasn't earned and happened way too fast. Of course, the problem is, would Luke ever have that moment of weakness thinking he had to preemptively take out Ben? It's a mixed bag. I do find Ben/Kylo's backstory compelling here, though. Much more so than Padme being the reason for everything going wrong way back when.
Snoke - When we got a backstory on the Emperor in the prequels, he was just a Sith rising through politics, who created a proxy war to weaken the republic and wipe out the jedi, and the turning of Anakin was botched. You see his rise in the prequels and if that isn't enough, there's some (I guess now, Legends stuff) on Darth Plagueis the Wise that gives more of Palpatine's backstory as well. I don't find any of it really compelling to be honest, Palpatine is just a representation of ultimate evil to serve as the stumbling block to Darth Vader's redemption. The more you dig, the less there is. I guess he likes opera from the scene in Revenge of the Sith, that's fine, but why do I care? I don't really care if Smoke like's watching podrace holocrons or whatever.
So, when looking at Snoke, I'm fine with what we got. He was a dark side force user who seized power in an off shoot of the Empire and worked to corrupt a powerful force user to undercut the new republic. Anything more than that? What exactly could be said? Who trained him? Another Plagueis type, an evil before the evil? I seriously don't care and don't need these things spelled out for me. I can logically fill in the gaps. I suppose we could get flashbacks to the fallout of the battle of Endor and how Snoke did this and did that, but it wouldn't really serve the narrative.
Kylo Ren had to kill Snoke to ascend and I'm fine with it.
Rey - you really only have four options. Kylo could say, "Rey, you know these characters who haven't been mentioned in the force awakens, well, they were your parents and are important, that's why you're powerful." Or Kylo could have said, "Rey, I am your brother," or, "Rey, I am your cousin," or what we got, "Rey, you're a nobody and I'm offering you the chance to be somebody if you join me (marry me). "
Say Rey is Han/Leia's daughter, we've already got scenes in both movies of them mentoring her, but then it comes off as guilt on their part for hiding her away and messing with her mind to keep her in the dark. I think its more powerful that she finds acceptance from them despite no bloodline connection.
If Rey is Luke's daughter, then the next movie is her tracking down Luke's wife/lover. If she's *insert important characters here* daughter, then she chasing them down. She's had three mentors thus far if you count her interaction with Leia at the end of this movie, so that seems overkill. I guess the reality of low life parents being scumbags isn't as glamorous as your parents being important so I like the idea she messed up her memories herself. I guess it depends on how invested in the idea of legacy characters you are and this particular mystery box. I like that Rey comes from nothing.
The trauma Kylo and Rey went through is somewhat the same, but Rey isn't allowing it to embitter her. She is still open to friendship and relationships with people. So, it makes sense she'd try to help Ben once she learned about him and what he went through. Her disappointment at Kylo's offer afterwards was heartbreaking. I really felt for her in that moment.
I find it much more interesting seeing the prospect of were she takes things as she carries the mantle now. Yoda destroyed the old Jedi text. Kind of reminds me of the bible, jews get bogged down in so many laws and customs that really have nothing to do with anything, its time for something new, but she's not really the Jesus sand in, maybe more a Paul type? She does need a new lightsaber.
Luke - The stuff with Luke is problematic. He almost made a horrible decision murdering Ben. Then he gave up. So, I can understand where Mark is coming from and how fans of Luke's character would be disappointed. Han definitely was handled better.
Those are the two major problems with this movie, the Finn stuff is filler and Luke's character is hard to justify.
However, I think all the stuff with Rey/Kylo is great because it really informs on who they are and why they are the way they are. And the acting is definitely much better than anything we got in the prequels, save for Ewan who tried more than the others. This movie, imo, isn't as bad as some people are making it out to be, but I can understand why some people would be disappointed.
Finn/Rose - This stuff is ultimately filler, though I did like Rose's character development. She saves some abused animals, inspires hope in the common kids being oppressed on the casino planet, and saves Finn where she had no chance of saving her sister. I liked how she stunned Finn at the beginning despite fangirling over him.
Finn doesn't really have any character development here, he's just doing everything to make sure Rey is ok. I hope he survives to be more than a center of a love triangle. I do think a lot of the stuff with Finn/Rose needed to be cut down a bit. It is over padded. Also, the casino guards reminded me of Spaceballs troops.
Captain Phasma - is definitely Boba Fett redux. Looks cool, promise of great things based upon fan expectations, then does nothing in the followup and dies a humiliating death by her rival. Boba's death is worse in Return because its played for kiddy laughs. Outfit design is nice, but at the end of the day, you can only be a decent villain if you get something to work with. Might be an unpopular option, but I always like Jango over Boba anyway, because he was just a merc trying to make a buck. I liked his simple motives and convo with Obi. And yes, I know he dies in an off hand way too, but he seemed like an actual character, not just a shinny toy like Boba or Phasma. Moving along...
Kylo Ren - Ben feeling like his master lost faith in him is more compelling a reason to turn (or the breaking point as he was already being corrupted) than Anakin's crazed desire to keep Padme alive. I got to keep Padme alive, ok I got to kill a bunch of kids who have no responsibility for anything going on. That leap has never made sense to me. Anakin's turn wasn't earned and happened way too fast. Of course, the problem is, would Luke ever have that moment of weakness thinking he had to preemptively take out Ben? It's a mixed bag. I do find Ben/Kylo's backstory compelling here, though. Much more so than Padme being the reason for everything going wrong way back when.
Snoke - When we got a backstory on the Emperor in the prequels, he was just a Sith rising through politics, who created a proxy war to weaken the republic and wipe out the jedi, and the turning of Anakin was botched. You see his rise in the prequels and if that isn't enough, there's some (I guess now, Legends stuff) on Darth Plagueis the Wise that gives more of Palpatine's backstory as well. I don't find any of it really compelling to be honest, Palpatine is just a representation of ultimate evil to serve as the stumbling block to Darth Vader's redemption. The more you dig, the less there is. I guess he likes opera from the scene in Revenge of the Sith, that's fine, but why do I care? I don't really care if Smoke like's watching podrace holocrons or whatever.
So, when looking at Snoke, I'm fine with what we got. He was a dark side force user who seized power in an off shoot of the Empire and worked to corrupt a powerful force user to undercut the new republic. Anything more than that? What exactly could be said? Who trained him? Another Plagueis type, an evil before the evil? I seriously don't care and don't need these things spelled out for me. I can logically fill in the gaps. I suppose we could get flashbacks to the fallout of the battle of Endor and how Snoke did this and did that, but it wouldn't really serve the narrative.
Kylo Ren had to kill Snoke to ascend and I'm fine with it.
Rey - you really only have four options. Kylo could say, "Rey, you know these characters who haven't been mentioned in the force awakens, well, they were your parents and are important, that's why you're powerful." Or Kylo could have said, "Rey, I am your brother," or, "Rey, I am your cousin," or what we got, "Rey, you're a nobody and I'm offering you the chance to be somebody if you join me (marry me). "
Say Rey is Han/Leia's daughter, we've already got scenes in both movies of them mentoring her, but then it comes off as guilt on their part for hiding her away and messing with her mind to keep her in the dark. I think its more powerful that she finds acceptance from them despite no bloodline connection.
If Rey is Luke's daughter, then the next movie is her tracking down Luke's wife/lover. If she's *insert important characters here* daughter, then she chasing them down. She's had three mentors thus far if you count her interaction with Leia at the end of this movie, so that seems overkill. I guess the reality of low life parents being scumbags isn't as glamorous as your parents being important so I like the idea she messed up her memories herself. I guess it depends on how invested in the idea of legacy characters you are and this particular mystery box. I like that Rey comes from nothing.
The trauma Kylo and Rey went through is somewhat the same, but Rey isn't allowing it to embitter her. She is still open to friendship and relationships with people. So, it makes sense she'd try to help Ben once she learned about him and what he went through. Her disappointment at Kylo's offer afterwards was heartbreaking. I really felt for her in that moment.
I find it much more interesting seeing the prospect of were she takes things as she carries the mantle now. Yoda destroyed the old Jedi text. Kind of reminds me of the bible, jews get bogged down in so many laws and customs that really have nothing to do with anything, its time for something new, but she's not really the Jesus sand in, maybe more a Paul type? She does need a new lightsaber.
Luke - The stuff with Luke is problematic. He almost made a horrible decision murdering Ben. Then he gave up. So, I can understand where Mark is coming from and how fans of Luke's character would be disappointed. Han definitely was handled better.
Those are the two major problems with this movie, the Finn stuff is filler and Luke's character is hard to justify.
However, I think all the stuff with Rey/Kylo is great because it really informs on who they are and why they are the way they are. And the acting is definitely much better than anything we got in the prequels, save for Ewan who tried more than the others. This movie, imo, isn't as bad as some people are making it out to be, but I can understand why some people would be disappointed.
