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Post by Swindle on Mar 8, 2021 14:02:03 GMT -8
Two favorite randoms in MASS:
The "Its curtains" guy when it looks like NYC will be destroyed.
The Cobra slave wearing glasses when the mob is freed to try to overtake Cobra.
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Post by Bravo on Mar 8, 2021 16:04:19 GMT -8
It's funny how Destro's devices in the first two miniseries require stealing something from the US government in order to be a global threat: the Relay Star for MASS, the laser core for Weather Dominator.
Then the Pyramid of Darkness requires....Space Station Delta!
Ron Friedman was a bit lazy, because the B.E.T. is needed for GI JOE The Movie...but then I recall that Buzz Dixon wrote the movie's script...maybe Friedman came up with the story.
Heck, even Arise, Serpentor, Arise winds up needed Slaughter's DNA...which doesn't make it to the final Serpentor.
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Post by Swindle on Mar 8, 2021 16:34:56 GMT -8
I seem to recall an interview where it was stated ordinal movie pitches played far closer to mini-series formats with the chase for parts/resources and Buzz rejected that.
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Post by Felix on Mar 12, 2021 18:58:39 GMT -8
People knock Cobra-La for having crazy weird monsters, but
M.A.S.S. Device had the giant under water tube worms that sounds the same as Cobra La Marauders (the giant spikey worms). ;-)
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Post by Swindle on Mar 12, 2021 22:09:01 GMT -8
I felt bad for those tub worms as they went to the surface, Duke claimed they'd end up exploding (I assume from change in water pressure).
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Post by Bravo on Mar 12, 2021 22:29:39 GMT -8
You're forgetting that the attempted "gate keepers" of the hobby from years ago, the comic book purists, hated the cartoons, and Cobra-La was their big focal point to saying why the toons were stupid and why the comic was the "canon".
Those cartoon worms didn't look like actual tube worms. But whatever.
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Post by Swindle on Mar 13, 2021 0:02:59 GMT -8
It seems like that debate is long dead given the current fans are collector based mostly and we are simply awaiting the next iteration of GIJoe's push (via a multi-media strategy apparently, streaming, movie). If Snake Eyes flops, that might be it for GIJoe on the big screen.
I can get people not liking Cobra La, but I defend the movie on two fronts. The premise was reveals. Where Serpentor really came from, where Cobra Commander came from, Duke/Falcon's backstory. Second, it was a fuse to lead into a reset that'd take place in season 3, Twins/Coil, Cobra Commander returns, blah blah blah. We've heard these debates, counter arguments a zillion times back in the day.
Other animation attempts:
DIC Joe: stood with the decline of GIJoe as a media property
G.I. Joe Extreme - An echo of the past, horrible design, no mass appeal
GIJoe 3D movies (Valor vs Venom/Spy Troops) - Direct to DVD stuff that ends up in bargin bins. This is a case where parents will go with more well known stuff to keep their kids occupied.
Sigma 6 - It has a tv slot on Fox and the toyline had great play features with modular weapons, but as you said a while back, Bravo, it just didn't catch on.
Resolute - A niche attempt appealing to the hardcores. Fine for what it is, but never was conceived to put GIJoe back on the map.
Renegades - Its stashed on a channel many people don't get and the toys were visually created with collector class in mind. Entry level for kids was too hard.
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Post by Swindle on Mar 13, 2021 0:08:42 GMT -8
Oh yeah, another... SNAKE Armor or SNAKE Robots?
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Post by Swindle on Mar 13, 2021 0:18:32 GMT -8
Oh yeah, I will mention, when Devils Due got the Joe license to do a comic, and it was this big deal, and they were starting up where 155 left off, and I remember RodZD on his Zartan site promoting it, but then, the issue came out, it sucked, turned out the only thing the writer could write was Dreadknoks, remember RodZD's review, "This is bad fan fic!" LOL
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Post by Bravo on Mar 13, 2021 11:18:40 GMT -8
Yeah, the attempted comic purists gate keepers found themselves smaller fish in a growing pond, and people stopped listening to them years ago.
SNAKE was armor, because I got it before the MASS Device cartoon.
But I'd later use it as a robot because never had enough Cobras.
I abandoned Devil's Due after a couple of issues even the art wasn't that good. I think last time I was looking at Joe comics at a comics show in the 50 cent bin, I was skipping the DD issues entirely.
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Post by Swindle on Mar 13, 2021 12:35:10 GMT -8
Think Devils Due hit rock bottom when they borrowed GH's trope from his dio story, lets kill Lady Jaye. Fans didn't like it.
GIJoe comics now is Hama apparently being self indulgent and only people buying it are completionists and the other take from IDW which is apparently horrible.
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Post by Felix on Mar 13, 2021 17:22:26 GMT -8
In M.A.S.S. Device, we must not forger Duke's fight with He-Man, which is pretty funny... and they end up working together :-) Oh yeah, another... SNAKE Armor or SNAKE Robots? I liked it as Armor, but M.A.S.S. made them Robots. Main point about the comic is issue #21. This issue was groundbreaking in the ENTIRE comic book industry and history. I would go on to add that the entire series from here on centers around or builds off of this story. *Fun fact, I picked up a copy in Mexico when I was a kid. It strangely sat among rows of street vendors with nothing but titty magazines. I got my aunt to buy it for me, she got it for a quarter. It was in Spanish, and didn't matter! :-) I wanted to read the new comics, but I think the series ends for me at #155, and the cartoon ends with the movie. I appreciate people doing new stories, but regardless of what happens, there is and was the one and only original run. I don't separate the cartoon from the comic, no reason they aren't the same universe. There is even a European Missions issue that is a prequel to the 1987 movie. Serpentor dreams about Pythona, and trys to get the B.E.T. The battle is in the tropics I believe, and it's why the Joe's aren't using Snow Cats in the Himalayas, they needed to move to a new testing site. Main arguments I heard over the years are: "Cartoon has lasers, comic has guns." I tend to view the cartoon as taking place after the comics, so the future tech, the Joe's having a larger base, all make sense then. I know, this creates some contradicting plots between the two series (i.e. Serpentors origin)...but, in general...this is how I look at it. Which I will admit is a little weird, because the comics continued after the cartoon was cancelled...
but that's just the way I've always looked at it.
"Cobra Commanders origins as an ancient reptilian race wanting to dominate the world"....yeah...that's crazy....that could never REALLY happen  "Cobra Commander in the comic, as a used car salesman is more realistic." Okay, so what? Who cares how he had to earn a living? I can see cartoon CC selling cars to get COBRA up and running no problem, this argument is weak. "Comic Cobra Commander banged a human woman...has a human kid." I sssstill don't see a problem. The first live action movie literally used the comic book pages to wipe it's butt. I think I choose to believe this is from some parallel dimension...like Worlds Without End. Except Worlds Without End was done well. Second live action movie did a surprisingly good job overall. |
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Post by Bravo on Mar 13, 2021 18:07:47 GMT -8
Think Devils Due hit rock bottom when they borrowed GH's trope from his dio story, lets kill Lady Jaye. Fans didn't like it. GIJoe comics now is Hama apparently being self indulgent and only people buying it are completionists and the other take from IDW which is apparently horrible. The Hama can do no wrong types still exist...somehow. Fiction creator worship is weird to me (it leads to people having breakdowns when they find out someone has a "wrong opinion" like JK Rowling). I don't know how they can stomach the comic now, I can't even get through it for free. Snake_Eyes is now Wade Collins' son who's suffered ever thing the original has and a teenage girl with Snake Eyes' memories or something. And there's ninja cyborgs everywhere. A giant alien eyeball in a PIT beneath the PIT. No one can ever complain about the cartoons being unbelievable again. The first IDW reboot universe had some interesting aspects, but...modern creators don't know how to handle the property. like RTG said, GI JOE really doesn't work outside of the 1980's. It especially doesn't mesh with the post 9-11 world. Trying to have realistic modern GI JOE and it's boring. Cobra is...what is Cobra? They don't need to be terrorists now. They can simply buy the world. That's one aspect of GI JOE RENEGADES made sense, Cobra Industries...well known company with shady doings behind the scenes. Do I like that universe, though? Not really. One comic that sort of got it but in a bizarre way was the fan-art looking GI JOE vs Transformers series. It was waaaay over the top, and felt like the creator was actually playing with the toys while he wrote and drew it. Not my ideal, either. |
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Post by Swindle on Mar 13, 2021 19:02:24 GMT -8
I did kind of like Rex "The Doctor" in Rise of Cobra. Science tech military guy who goes bad based on opportunity and a mission gone wrong to put him off the grid. Cobra Commander's file card, one of his specialty is experimental weaponry. Also, remember, the toon, synthoids were something CC and Zartan came up with, not Destro.
I did have an idea to explain away Cobra Commander's Cobra La connection along time ago, which would of also explained CB's connection to Cobra La. Basically, Cobra La wasn't that big actually, Nemy Enforcer was made out of dead things, as an example. Cobra Commander is just a human terrorist who had some of his memories altered. Kind of how you find out Pinhead wasn't always Pinhead in Hellraiser 2. Of course, that's just been my fan fic version idea and I'm not even sure I'm completely happy with it overall.
Anytime I have looked at any Joe comics, I hear the Sunbow voices with the characters that got lines in it. Just how it goes.
The cognitive dissonance surrounding Harry Potter and its progressive fans is funny. We like the fiction, we wanna be sorted into houses... first off, you'd all be squibs and second off, people have different opinions in life. Grow up. Rowling has F-U money and the IP means too much to Warner Media or whomever has control of it (I think its them). And trans stuff wouldn't even need to be a thing in the wizarding world, just use magic.
I read up on the female Snake Eyes. Kind of in broad strokes kind of reminds me of X23, not in details beat for beat, but in purpose. Teen female 'version.'
GIJoe vs Cobra is a classic play pattern. Good guys fight bad guys. But it doesn't mesh with todays world, as you said. The premise looked very silly in those live action attempts. You have to dig deep to justify Cobra. Also, Bond in every movie isn't fighting Spectre/Blofeld. He would go up against other bad guys to keep things fresh.
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Post by Felix on Mar 13, 2021 23:56:22 GMT -8
I really like your Cobra La connection theory :-)
I won't lie, it's making me like the Rise of Cobra a little bit more :-)
Did you guys notice Ripcord acted kind of like a "Stalker" to Scarlett ;-)
Accelerator Suits...
Exo-Suits are what Daniel and Spike use in Transformers the movie, just saying :-)
I hear the Joe Sunbow voices in my head when I read the comics too :-)
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