The Greatest G.I. Joes and Cobras, but I'm adding a hitch

[Swindle]

I always see these lists, who are the greatest? I decided to create a more fun discussion, adding an qualifier. Lets sort out the Greatest GIJoe and Cobra, but starting with the Letter A. On and on all the way to Z.

Why? Why not? Certain letters would be more competitive than others.

So, the letter A.

On the Joe side of things, it really comes down to Ace vs Alpine in my view. Alpine got plenty of coverage being cynical on the cartoon, however, I think Ace easily trumps him, pilot of the most iconic GIJoe plane.

Cobra, for the As, there's only two that stand out in my mind. It's either A.V.A.C. or Alley Viper. In the end, I chose Alley Viper. The A.V.A.C. is overshadowed by both the Terrordrome and Firebat, while the Alley Viper existed right at the end of "GIJoe toy coolness" as I call it. 89, before the toyline got bogged down in all kinds of ill conceived ideas. Alley Viper is a damn cool Viper with all the armor he wore, the neat detachable grappling hook on his vintage backpack, very neat feature, and keep getting variations in the modern line.

(Agent Helix, Airbrone, Airtight... ehhh, interesting characters, but hardly the stuff of legends. I vaguely recall Ambush featured in a bad DIC ep. Cobra's A helpings is fairly unimspired.... Air-Viper, Aero-Viper, Astro-Viper.. I get the picture, you got Cobra forces in the sky).

Ace and Alley Viper are my choices for the most iconic GIJoe and Cobra starting with the letter A!

Agree, disagree?

[Bravo]

The greatest list polls I've seen get stupid. People nominating non-entities like Shooter or Firewall or jokes like Skidmark.

Greatest or favorite? For fav I'd pick Airtight. For actual influence it comes down to Ace, Airborne(v1) and Alpine. Ace wins by having more figures and exposure than the other two.

Yeah, Alley Viper. Oddly, there's no named Cobra characters with an A, unless you include comic losers.

Agree. Yay.

[Felix]

I agree with Alley Viper, but Alpine had humor, and was Bazookas counterpart (B). I'd say Alpine all the way, plus Aces figure sucked.

[Swindle]

The thing about lists that are voted on is people allow their biases to influence them way too much. I like doing this by letters, btw, because it allows to see how much Habro came up with creative names with this or that letter.

I like Alpine and Airtight more than Ace as well, but I still go with Ace.

Moving onto the letter B... It's the Baroness on Cobra. It just has to be. The only two other notables is Buzzer and BATs, but Baroness so trumps them in a big way. I suppose Black Out has a bit of a cult following, but who needs him, Baroness herself knows how to use a freaking rifle. Then you all the way down to cheesy stuff like Bio-Viper. So, yeah, Baroness.

Interesting that the Stall family all have code-names with the letter B. Barrel Roll, Bombstrike, Black Out. Barrel Roll is the least interesting of the three. Bombstrike was GIJoe's answer to Power Girl, but they are removing that appearance with the upcoming subscription fig.

Bs also have quite a few urban Joes, such as Bullet Proof, Bull Horn, Barricade, not very compelling or important characters at all.
Then you have Big Ben and Big Bear as lame international Joes who put Big in front of their name. Big Brawler as a running gag that has given him a measure of importance, I suppose. Bazooka as a mainstay from Sunbow.

Breaker vs Beachhead for me. Breaker has historical importance as one of the originals, but Beachhead is a more popular character and figure by vast amounts of fans in my view. I'm picking Beachhead for GIJoe.

Beachhead and Baroness. My picks for best/most important characters with the letter B.

[Bravo]

Those are probably correct for importance and exposure.

Some have pointed out that Beach-Head was a bad name for a ranger, better name for a Marine. Also, his character design started out as a Cobra (MUTT did, too!). And I'm not sold on GI JOE have so many "masked bad-asses", no matter how many figures he got (his head became a universal donor for good and evil in the "modern era").

So for B, BIG LOB is the obvious choice...ahaw-haw. Actually, I'm going Breaker on this one. He got into the live action movies, even if his nationally was changed and he was MIA in the sequels.

[Felix]

By the way, this game is tough.
I'm already hating that Alpine lost over Ace. Ace had so little time in both the comics and cartoon. I blame Top Gun for his popularity. The only thing I liked about his figure was that the head was like one of the Original 13, same for Deep Six.


Baroness: Agree, but BIG BOA is a close second, lol!

Beachhead: Disagree, but not by much. I'm sticking with Alpine for 'A' and Bazooka for 'B'. 1985 for the win!
Beachhead had an awesome figure. He's Commando Snake Eyes that can talk! But that's why he fails. Too many masked Joe's, he does look like a Cobra and so does Shockwave. I think this is why Beachhead didn't get much comic book air time...at least in the original series anyway. Bazooka got the lame death in Resolute. The humor between Alpine and Bazooka in the Sunbow cartoon was terrific. Breakers figure had a beard, but his card art was clean shaven. Breaker wore grey in the cartoon, contradicting the figure and the card art. Breakers comic appearance would be shaven or with some scruff, kind of confusing just for appearance sake. The running gag with Bazooka was that he would always hit his target, but barely miss a friendly Joe, usually tripping and falling when he went to shoot. Like Breaker, Bazooka also liked bubble gum. Breaker did get a lot more use in the comic, that was cool, and then he got killed off for no reason. I also felt Beachhead was probably one of the Original 13, probably Grunt, but his true identity is never fully revealed, so his character never fully develops. In the end, he's a cool figure and character, but not one I really care about.

Alpine and Bazooka were more fun than those other guys IMHO. If I have to break the tie, I vote Beachhead. He wins over Breaker because the figure matched the card art.

I wonder who will get nominated for "C" on the Cobra side

[Swindle]

I think its a cool game because it allows us to discuss Joes in an interesting grouping. And this place needs more constructive topics anyway.

I also don't think its a voting system. Your opinion is very persuasive, actually, Felix. Your cases for Alpine and Bazooka is very cool stuff.

One thing I'll say about Beachhead, unlike other masked "badasses", he was a hothead and needed to be put in check.

Sooo... Cobra Commander. In my opinion, the single greatest GIJoe character of all time. That's just me. Sorry to other A listers, Cobra Commander surpasses them all. But look at some of the Cs washed away by him, Cobra (or Cobra Trooper if you wish), Cobra Officer, the Crimson Guard, some of the very iconic Cobra troops. Cobra Commander outclasses them all big time. Croc Master is a cool cult favorite, but come on, he's just a C list character. Copperhead never made much impact, either as a driver or leader of Python Patrol. He just seemed one step removed from Dreadknok status to me. Not really a member of Cobras power players. I remember one top list had Cobra Commander down at four or so on Cobras, with the likes of Destro and Zartan ahead of him, made no sense to me. Just saying. It's Cobra Commander that makes everything work, toyline, cartoons, comics, and so forth.

GIJoe Cs are more interesting. Capt. Grid-Iron, who's claim to fame is some exposure in DIC Joe and as a playable character in one of the Joe video games. He also is a sports themed Joe. Not really respected much and never got more figs. Claymore for people into obscure sub-group original characters. Chuckles, who's a bit higher profile. I know recent comics have made use of him big time.

But really, I think what stands out for me is the drivers... Clutch, Cover Girl, Cross Country, Cutter. I think this is interesting, I think Cover Girl's ride, the Wolverine is the least popular/least iconic. But I actually think when you look at Cs, Cover Girl is the greatest GIJoe character with the letter C. She made a come back in both Devils Due GIJoe and IDW GIJoe comics, core member of a stripped down team. Lets see, the time they have voting on different three packs, the pack including her was victorious on the basis of her figure alone. She did make it in the live action movie, even if it was just brief eye candy.

[Bravo]

Cobra Commander. Not gonna debate that.

I like Crazylegs, but he never did anything. Nor did Crankcase. Nostalgia points me towards Clutch. The figure my brother and I said looked like our dad. Driver of the VAMP, which got a lot of play. He also had a significant role in the first 20 issues of the comic (He was sort of Marvel's version Sunbow's Shipwreck). Cover Girl was a vehicle operator, then they had to make her another intell operative in the 2000's, more because they want more females in active roles. I don't dislike her, though. It just she's not quite as defined as Scarlett, LJ or even Jinx. Or if we are talking C characters, I'd argue Cross Country is tad more distinct as a character (but I like Cover Girl more than him). Chuckles has too much difference between animated and comic versions to consider.

So Clutch for me, marginally.

Wait for Felix now.

The letter D should be really easy.

[Felix]

I like the game Swindle
I like it because it's kind of tough

Thinking about these characters just makes me realize how much work I'm going to have to do in the 1/6 world. Long way to go, BUT it's going to help remind me to do important characters like Alpine & Bazooka, Shipwreck & Covergirl. I realistically think I can have a few figures I'm working on at once. It just gets way too overwhelming otherwise. Sorry, back on topic!

COBRA C: Cobra Commander; Big fat AGREE!!!!

JOE C: COVERGIRL!!! FTW!!!

D is for Destro and Duke.

Dusty, Doc, Darklon, Dodger, Downtown, Decimator, Dojo, Dogfight, Deep-Six and Dial-Tone never had a chance.

[Swindle]

I do quite like Deep-Six and his vehicle.

Duke is an interesting guy. Natural born leader, all that jazz. I vaguely remember RodZ throwing it out there, what's the difference between Flint and Duke? Both did heroic things, both could lead GIJoe, both were romantically linked to a high profile female? I think Duke was more concerned with leading GIJoe, for one thing. He also didn't go for "self-absorbed" girls. I do like Lady Jaye, but was/is flirtatious and likes being the center of attention. Flint always struggled with that and she Lady Jaye enjoyed a bit of his jealously. Duke really just did his job, and Scarlett respected and attracted to him for it. Duke was more of an adult than Flint and more of a "man's man." Never understood comic book fans dislike for the character.

Dusty is one of my favorites for being thrust into an undercover role in that two parter. Dial-Tone for being a marginal GIJoe and now his sister has moved in on his code-name. Doc is a long time favorite.

Destro got his own slot in the theme song, "IT's GIJOE against Cobra and Destro..." Very cool and I always was shocked when he was going to start executing all those leaders they had captured near the end of MASS. I like Desert Scorpions, just one slot removed from Toxo-Vipers. Punishment in Cobra is harsh. Dr. Mindbender, errr, I never got his getup. Wear a shirt, please.

But yeah, Destro/Duke. Simple and Easy.

[Bravo]

DUKE and Darklon...okay, Destro.

Even though I read the comic first, Duke means more to me than Hawk because I had the Duke mail-away but Hawk was the only original 13 I didn't have (my brother did, though). So Duke with his swivel arms and his gear was a fun figure compared to all my straight arm '82 team.

Comics fans dislike that Duke took over Stalker's role. Comic Duke was at times a jerk, but Stalker could be a jerk, too. And comic Flint was an a-hole. Duke really was a He-Man/Ken doll nod according to his production art he'd have a "Masters of the Universe head".

Destro was great because he was so cool that you ignored the absurdity of a guy wearing a chrome mask that he can somehow talk and emote in. As character he starts strong but later falters because the comic kept making him too honorable and rational to remain evil and that has the side effect of removing Baroness from Cobra as well. The cartoon he challenges Cobra Commander, but never had the stones to become leader himself, backing the Serpentor idea then realizing it failed. Kinda needed that IG story line. Dic sort of makes him Cobra Commander's Mr. Spock, and then Hasbro rebooted Destro to being Cobra's gun supplier again. Some fans don't help because they want the drama but at the same time want the status quo of Destro being an ally who really despises CC but serves him anyway.

[Felix]

The comic made Destro's love for the Baroness his weakness. The guy is a romantic and would go through hell for her. I did hate when they unmasked him, he looked so boring. I also don't like that he can take the mask off.

Cartoon Destro is dedicated towards Cobras cause, and although he loves the Baroness, he will not hesitate push her out of the way to ensure he escapes to safety. Destros mask seems permanent, like it's become part of him. I like this.

Both versions, Destro is smart and capable.


Cartoon Duke should have been Hawk. His design and character are blatant copies of the comic book Hawk. Even as a kid when I saw Mass Device, I didn't quite get why they were calling Hawk, Duke. I thought Duke must have been Hawks real name, it was the only explanation I could come up with. It's one of those things that just can't be undone. Because of Dukes popularity, Hawk vs. 2 has brown hair and matches the cartoon Hawk, not the comic Hawk...and his hair looks lame. Comic Hawk looked like a cool guy, and he was the leader of the G.I. JOE team, and he was first. If Duke had never existed, and the cartoon just called Duke, Hawk, comic fans would have ate it up. Plus the cartoon hardly used Hawk for anything, even in 1986. I think this is why the cartoon used Flint, sure to help sell toys, but to also ignore the problem that was created with Duke since they couldn't find another way to fix it. They stopped using Duke pretty much altogether. The comic refused to give Hawk brown hair, he had blonde all the way through, even in his 1986 attire. All of this confusion, and the fact Hasbro wanted to push new figures onto the market I think led the way for his death in the 1987 movie. Killing Duke off, made none of that other stuff matter anymore. It was a good solution all across the board. That said, I love how Sideshow did Hawk. He's got kind of dirty blonde hair color. It works. It's a nice medium for both worlds. I love Dukes character, and when I saw G.I. JOE the movie, my dad was sick with cancer. It looked like Duke died. It was a scene that made both of us think about what was happening with my dad, (we knew he only had so much time left). It was nice to see that the cartoon wasn't afraid to show the death of a major character, and at that time it made me think about what my dad was going through, and the talk that he gives to Falcon to inspire him to be the best he can be really hit home with me. In the real world, people die. In my universe Duke died from Serpentors attack. It's the way it was written. One of the only things I hate about the comic is that they kept using Duke later in the series. This goes against my universe, but at least they don't use him much, and since he looks just like Hawk, I pretend it's Hawk.

[Swindle]

I'm with you on Serpentor's attack, I was in many ways a dumb kid, but even I could tell that Doc line was put in after the fact. It was obvious Duke died in the Movie. (of course, I had Tiger Force Duke which was weird looking and I used it as a clone of Duke Cobra created).

Anyway, The Es suck. No ifs ands or buts about it. Es suck.

Eels, Electric Eels, and Elite Viper. Eels wins, despite being what I consider kind of the least interesting of classic Cobra troops.

Effects wins by default on GIJoe side. No other E codenames. I just remember that creepy grin he had. That's it.

[Felix]

I didn't know who Effects even was, had to look him up, what an ugly mug!

I liked Eels. So similar to the SEALS, always thought that was very clever. Love the way they look too, first version anyway.

It's my day off, so I've got some time to play
COBRA F's; Firefly. That's it, he wins by default alone.

Joe F's; Flint get it for sure.
Rest of the Joe F's are Falcon, Footloose, Flash and Frostbite.
Falcon had his 10 seconds of fame, but he's not a replacement for Flint. I like Falcon more (Character and toy), but Flints iconic.
Footloose, never cared for him, ever.
Flash was cool at the time, but those legs on the figure look terrible. They gave them to Grandslam and Snake Eyes too. I like Flash more than Flint, but he just isn't as popular.
Frostbite was always Clutch to me in Arctic gear. I like Clutch more than Flint too. Screw you Flint.

[Bravo]

Effects is a space trooper with bare hands! As little paint ops as they gave later releases, but they painted an astronauts hands flesh colored.

EELS is the winner for Cobra. I forgot about Elite Viper, because the RoC troops all blend together into some "Snake-Eyes in turtle armor" theme in my memory.

Firefly, yes. Not too much competition...Flak, Fast Blast, and Frag Vipers? Ferret? (Never liked that codename as it was already a Cobra vehicle).

Flint, brunette Duke in a beret...haw. I didn't like Flint's first figure back in the day, the cocky beret head sculpt. I later got the Tiger Force one. I'm okay with the original now.

Other F's. Falcon was a good figure. Footloose a fine figure, but meh character. Flash was nice, but that punk Grand Slam watered down his look. Freefall was just Ripcord redone. Fast Draw was a victim of under exposure and limited by his bulky gear. Frostbite, I like him, but never did anything in the comic or the cartoon. Firewall doesn't have a figure, and therefore doesn't matter to me (also Devil's Due she was a young woman, in IDW she looks late middle aged). And THE FRIDGE, who wins hands down, but it's too unfair to consider him, so it goes back to Flint.